made in India
January 29th, 2008 - by Nazia Vasi
Until recently, most people including Indians considered the ‘Made in India’ label to to be a sign of low quality. However, the tables are turning, as India rolls out products with finesse, global consumers are slowly but surely showing a preference for quality products rather than the buy cheap-and chuck ‘Made in China’ products.In a recent survey conducted by Fortune Magazine, nearly three in five (57%) of the respondents said they were less likely to buy a product if it was ‘Made in China’. However, 52% said their purchasing decision would not be affected if the product was ‘Made in India’.
Fortune magazine which surveyed 1,000 adults across America in mid January, said “where the product is manufactured does not impact American’s purchasing decisions, execpt when that product is made in China.”
In the survey, only 35% American’s said they were less likey to purchase a product manufactured in India, while 11% said they were more likely to buy such goods. In the wake of several Chinese goods product recalls, 11% of the respondents said they were more likely to buy chinese products, while 30% said it didn’t matter to them whether the goods were exported from the dragon country or not.
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January 30th, 2008 at 5:51 am
India has impressed the world when it comes to certain areas such as IT outsourcing, pharmaceuticals etc., but India has not so far impressed us with its manufactured goods. The negative opinions expressed by the Americans polled come freshly from the recent scares of Chinese-made toys, of course you would expect people to develop such opinion. It is certainly justified. But to conclude and generalize that all Chinese-made products are low in quality is of course, incorrect to say the least.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:55 pm
And what Indian goods have you purchased recently? We have a world class market for textiles, and agriculture, and export all over the world. You dont see that in China because it competes directly. We own and control much of the worlds steel supply, and have some of the biggest conglomerates in companies like Tata, Reliance and Mittal, with global investments in everything from auto to glass to nuclear technology to plastics, tea and spice processing. You can’t just discount our international standards of pharmaceuticals, IT and outsourcing (English) skills just like that. “Well, apart the IT, medicines, steel, outsourcing, tea, curries, spices, precious gems, buddhism, silk, cottons and literature - what have the Indians ever done ?” Its nonsense, and you need to get out more.
January 31st, 2008 at 9:31 pm
I doubt if China has as many as world competitive companies as India does ( I could not come up with many more names apart from haier and legend). However, when it comes to export, China still has obvious advantage over India.
As to the low-quality impression of Chinese goods, I am very surprised to see here in India chinese stuff are sold in local train to people on their way back home. And crackers from illegal workshops were banned in Mumbai, which were from China. Chinese goods are very much associated with low quality here in India. Then I realized I seldom bought those stuff in China: what I bought in China is obviously better than Indian goods here which I use. So it seems to me mainly low-quality and low-end goods are exported to India. Indian importers definitely play a role in this. I used to visit many exporters in Yangzi delta region and Zhu Jiang delta region. Those Chinese exporters could make and sell anything based on the requirements of the importers. They just deliver what importers want, very flexible.
Interestingly, almost all the Chinese working here in mumbai I met would complain about Indian products. You know, the situation is that indians think China churns out the cheap and low-quality products to every corner of the world and Chinese think Indian standard is not so high and people just make do with everything.
Well, i prefer calm and clean arguments. I take efforts to make my message honest and clear. Pls forgive me in case of any bias or offence.
February 1st, 2008 at 4:24 am
No offense. India does make low cost / value products just as China does. But I think (and believe) we also make far more high end high value products than China does. There are several reasons: (1) We’ve been doing it for a lot longer, (2) We have better communication skills - all our University graduates are fluent in English and (3) the best Indian companies are true multinationals and used to dealing with high quality demands and transparency from the West, which Chinese companies by and large are not, and are not on the same scale. (4) The Chinese and Indian governments have instilled in their populations that neither are to be trusted, via unflattering media reports over the past 40 years, and this had lead to a misunderstanding by many Indians and Chinese over the quality and reliability both sides of each others produce, which is not always entirely correct and has been driven by national politics rather than the reality. China is good at making low end product, there is a need for that. India has already laid it’s claim on higher value manufacturing. They have different paths but I think China will find it difficult to break out of the low end manufacturing base they have built. They need low tech industry because they need to keep a lot of people busy in a one party State, or they start problems. We don’t have that political problem in India as we are a democracy and we can bring in hi-tech production, and are looking to acquire that technology. Tata are buying Jaguar for that reason. Nanjing Auto bought MG Rover just to acquire a bankrupt production line on the cheap. There is a difference in mentality.
February 1st, 2008 at 7:16 am
Ram,
It is now my turn to say “no offense”. It might be true that ” textiles, and agriculture, and export all over the world. You dont see that in China because it competes directly. We own and control much of the worlds steel supply, and have some of the biggest conglomerates in companies like Tata, Reliance and Mittal, with global investments in everything from auto to glass to nuclear technology to plastics, tea and spice processing. ” , but I simply do not see that many Indian consumer products other than some clothing items (actually I have seen more Made in Banagladesh, Made in Sri Lanka clothes) which have not left me any concrete impression about Made in India, either good or bad. It is a fact that India is not known as a manufacturing hub that China is known right now, and that might not necessarily be a bad thing for India. Why get so emotional about Indian products not registering with me that much? It is the case here in the US right now. Maybe you ought to do more to promote India as the next manufacturing giant.
Of the four points that you listed, (1) (2) and (4) are nonsense.
(1) “We’ve been doing it for a lot longer”: Really? What have you been doing? What have you been churning out? At least in the US, I can safely say that India is not associated with high end products. When people go buy a car, they don’t care if the steel is made in India, they care about what the car is and where it is made. Medicines? I have yet to find any products made by Indian drug companies. Alieve? Tylonol?
(2) Indian being able to speak English: It is a huge advantage indeed, I concur. However, that is not a must. Both Japan and South Korea have succeeded without an English-speaking population.
(4) Mutual distrust? There is strong anti-Chinese (dissing China) sentiment among Indians, thanks to (a) China being the “all weather” friend of India’s arch-rival Pakistan (b) 1962 and (c) China being a competitor to India, both third-world developing countries. The Chinese, on the other hand, until recently could careless about India. Their focus is with the US and Japan. Most Chinese are extremely ignorant when it comes to knowledge of India and most of them have neutral feelings toward India. India is known as one of the ancient civilizations and the homeland of great Buddha. That’s pretty much it. Where is the distrust “instilled by the Chinese government”? If there was any, India certainly was not a target. Maybe the US and Japan.
As to (3), I concur that Indian companies in general do have more exposure to western standard of corporate governance than the typical Chinese companies.
The automobile industry comparison makes no sense. Rowe is said to be doing pretty well. And Nano in no way stands for “higher value manufacturing”.
I suggest that you pay a visit to China before making more assumptions.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Pffffffer: I have lived in China for 13 years.
So we make steel that goes into US cars ‘but it doesn’t count’ ? Our drugs businesses are what keeps much of the developing world alive, including China. And although you may not buy the Nano (it was designed for Indian domestic use) then how come Tata are buying Jaguar and Land Rover and not say….Shanghai Auto ?
Indian private companies out bid Chinese globally in M&A by a huge margin. Lenovo ? USD1 billion. Peanuts compared with the global outlay Indian companies are making (USD36 billion anyone?) WITHOUT government assistance.
China is all about Government. India is about Free Enterprise. You fail to see which is the more healthy, and you too have the same India prejudice. You fail to realise I actually may know what I’m talking about and dismiss me as a rickshawalla from Madras. Chinese arrogance, my friend.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
pffffffffffffffffffffffffffer (haha) is a chinese??????
ram, may i ask why you stay in china for so long (13 years!!!? gosh) in spite of dislike? and is there anything called chinese arrogance, rickshawalla arrogence or Indian arrogance!?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 am
Ram, cut the crap please.
I have to admit that I have never been to India and I can’t say much about India, I can only speak from my personal experience. It is a FACT that Made in India has not registered with most consumers. Who cares where the steel was made? Who cares who made it? Once again, when you go buy a car, whether you buy a Toyota, Honda, BMW or GM, it is the car that registers with your brain, not the steel. Tata bought Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford? That’s great. I am sure Tata has a lot of money, we will see what the fallout will be.
Drugs? Which name brand drug sold in China is of Indian origin?
I hate the endless comparisons between India and China. Really, who cares? None of the Chinese that I have talked to seemed to care. I think the Chinese are too busy improving their own lives (there are a lot of hurdles ahead of them) and they don’t have the luxary to compare them with anybody.
If you have stayed in China for 13 years, you should have developed a better understanding of China. And some perspectives. If China drives you crazy, you can always hop on an airplane.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 am
Pfffffffffff - you are two sided. You chastise me because you are thinking I have not been to China, and then you admit you have never been to India! What a funny fellow you are.
You have to appreciate branding is one thing. Most successful brands in China are of course Chinese. But it’s what goes into them that counts ! And a lot of that - steel, royalties for drugs made under India patents, plastics, chemicals, ore….we sold over USD150 million of crustaceans to Chian last year (Indian crabs are the best). So no, you may not see the brand names - but you ARE buying, wearing or consuming Indian product now even without realising it. As Indians are Chinese.
Oh, and thanks so much for the arrogance of “If I don’t like it in China, I can hop on an airplane’. I live partially in your country. Maybe one day when you can afford to visit my country I can say the same to you, if I wanted to be rude. But I don’t, so I will say “Welcome to India, Pfffff”. Until then - you are Chinese, living in China; and I am an Indian, living and travelling in both. I suspect one may know a bit more about China-Indian trade than the other.
Enjoy your chapatis for breakfast Pfffff. Indian-Chinese trade is growing, and you WILL consume more Indian product here, like it or not.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Cut the crap, once again.
Did I ever assume that you have never been to China? I don’t care if you have never been to China or if you have stayed in China for 13 years, your assumptions are far off-base. And you are pretty assertive. I would never be assertive about something that I don’t know much about. You are assuming that I am Chinese, huh? You and your assumptions.
Man, I was talking about “consumer products”! Who cares if you exported tons of iron ore, steel and plastics (really?) to China? China also imports a lot of these, as well as oil from Russia, Africa and many other countries. That does not translate into brand awareness. That does not translate into recognition of “made in India”. Of course India exports tons of stuff to China, otherwise there would be no trade between the two countries. Exporting stuff to another country is hardly something you can boast about. Every single country in this world trades.
You might know more about India-China trade, but I certainly don’t need you to lecture me that India is this and that dominant. Here in the US, I rarely see made in India. Once again, nobody is denying the progress and stride India has made, nobody is denying India is a powerhouse when it comes to IT outsourcing etc. I am just saying that made in India has not really impressed me that much. Can I opine here without being harassed?
When I can afford to visit your country? haha, I sure can. And I do want to visit India, its history, cultures and people have always fascinated me. But I am not going to your country to listen to you people boasting.
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:14 pm
wow, it becomes more and more interesting………….. this place should hire you guys as writers! I agree with pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff that chinese are not so enthusiastic in comparing with India. And well, both indians and chinese tend to boast, i should say, hehe. of couse, chinese always think Indians are braging and verse vesa.
February 4th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Well, Pffeffer I can’t really understand your point that India selling thousands of millions of dollars worth of raw material to the US and China doesn’t translate as ‘Made in India”. After all, with Chinese brand names being so regionally specific, and US brands so well entrenched, why would Indian businesses want to compete or go head to head with Ford or a domestic Chinese brand ? It would be difficult to do so for obvious reasons. But the fact that those same products contain large % of Indian commodities - well thats still Indian, and it saves them all those marketing costs. I tend to agree with Ram’s point - you’re using Indian (and Chinese) products without even realising it. It doesn’t mean Made in India as a brand is a problem. If anything, it’s more subversive - no-one realises. Which is a better business model ? Set up a Tata auto brand in the US and try to sell Indian made cars, or just sell the US manufacturers the steel, rubber, and plastic components ? A Ford, shocking as it may seem, is not an entirely American made car with entirely American sourced parts. In fact most of it orginates overseas. It’s just assembled in the US. That is where Ram’s view diverts from yours.
February 5th, 2008 at 6:24 am
Chris, I thought Ram’s point was “India rules!!!11111″, just like that. I certainly agree that India rules in certain areas (such as IT outsourcing that I mentioned), but to this day I don’t believe India has yet to rule manufacturing and consumer goods (that’s what “Made in XXX” means to most people). I have seen more “Made in Vietnam” and “Make in Bangladesh” than “Made in India”s. If you are talking about Indian exporting raw materials, then I have to ask: Russia does the same, so does North Korea. Can you say either Russia or North Korea rules in manufacturing?
I am not here to compare business models. Tata may turn out to be a great automobile company and the pride of India, but right now it simply doesn’t register with most people outside India. Don’t believe me? Try ask non-Indians around you.
February 5th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Pffefer; heres the Tata Group website: http://www.tata.com/
If you notice, a true multinational with a market cap of just under USD60 billion. Now you may not see the Tata brand name on a soft drink or a pair of jeans, but that doesn’t mean they are not a successful company. I think you confuse consumer branding as being directly relevant to being a successful global business. Actually, that is not necessarily true. Look at the right hand side of their website. See that new acquisition by Tata of US General Chemical Industrial for USD1,005 million ? That’s a lot of chemicals and a lot of US businesses and employees in the States that now rely upon….an Indian company for their jobs and product quality. So I would suggest that just because most of your friends haven’t heard of them is not really a valid argument when it comes to their true market share and value. And thats just Tata. How about Mittal, Reliance, Mahindra, Infosys….its a long list.
February 5th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I have been reading the comments above and truly I think it is a non-discussion. Comparing India with China is just as much of a useless excercise as well. Economies are not a cricket match.
Regarding brands:
Both countries have popular brands within and outside the countries. There’s more than Haier, Huawei and Legend as well as more than Tata, Mittal and Infosys. Both countries produce super low end goods (believe me there are a lot of substandard consumer goods for sale in India) as well as incredible feats of high tech engineering.
Chris rightfully pointed out another phenomenon: not only the goods that go into other products but also the engineering behind the products and what to think about engineering brandnames, manufacturers of machinery that we consumers do not know but that are revered in their specific industrial markets. You will find a lot of Indian and very much so Chinese brandnames there. Just go and visit any specific manufacturing exhibition. You’ll be amazed how many more famous Indian and Chinese brands are out there. But ok you were discussing consumer brands.
Just an interesting story:
Not so long ago there was an article in the New York Times about the manhole covers of New York. These cast iron covers were made in India so the journalist decided to go over and look at the manufacturing facilities. He wanted to know if the city of New York, always on the forefront of proclaiming how they care about their staff and workers, applies the same high moral principles abroad.
Absolutely horrendous working conditions is what he found. The photoseries can be found on the NYT website. Medieval production techniques, very dangerous for the unprotected workers. For the New York Times reading New Yorker who sees hundreds of manhole covers a day with the sign “Made in India” that is what manufacturing in India is now all about.
Moral of the story: one story with an impact can affect the perception of a group of people but it does not have to mean that all Indian working consitions and products are like that. So Barbie had bad paint and a bad design? There’s millions of products made in China that are in a different league than barbie but the perception is all there is.
If companies decide to have high tech manufacturing outsourced the can do that anywhere. India with its lesser infrastructure would not be the place to cast a sophisticated piece of aluminium. The idea that China can not make very sophisticated products is a joke. The worlds first Pebble Bed Nuclear reactor after the idea had been given up? China. INdia is good at pharma we know and again like Chris said: we might not buy Dr. Reddy medicines in China but it is very well possible that your foreign branded pills come from an Indian factory or a factory bought by Indians and produced by one of the OEM generics outfits. The question is how much is that about being brilliant and how much because you have good international financing in place. The Chinese can not do the same takeovers, both managerial and due to currency restrictions financially, that look so easy for Indians. For Indian companies looking to expand globally in certain niche markets this is the beginning of the golden age.
Although Indian companies are going global let’s not forget the success of the Chinese companies. Staying with aluminium. Chalco just bought a 13 billion USD stake in Rio Tinto so it is certainly not all Mittal, Jindall and Tata that rules. As a matter of fact I think the Chinese are going to be rather succesful in buying global mineral deposits. Check what is happening in Africa.
Just take it as it is. Two large countries, each with their own level of high and low tech industries, each with their own export and internal consumer markets. Each with their own deplorable living and working conditions for the poor. Communist or democratic does not seem to be making a big difference in that respect. If you are poor the only thing to sell after your children and kidney is your vote and unfortunately that has not been of a great help in India and the poor in the inland provinces of China are still having to deal with what they have always been dealing with: staying alive and hoping for a bit of advancement.
Each country will be trying to eat away the others market share in the global economy. Government long term vision will certainly play a role in both India and China in which one side might focus on processing more and the other shows great concern of getting the raw meterials as well. The rest is al in the spirit of free enterprise. More brands will make it to the global marketplace and some will be Chinese and some will be Indian. “We Indians” or “We Chinese” is not a way to look at it.
February 6th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Chris, I am not denying that Tata is a successful company. It had to be, otherwise it wouldn’t have acquired this and that. My point all along has been: India (including those from Tata) has yet to rule in manufacturing and consumer products, aka “Made in India”. I have never ever denied the achievements and strides India as a nation or Indian companies made. That would be foolish.
Again, Tata might be great, but simply not many people outside India knew about it. This is a fact. Thanks to “Nano”, more people got to know Tata.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
As far as the steel production is concerned, a simple truth is
China steel production(2006): 419 million tons, export to US: 45 mT
India steel production(2006): 44 million tons
February 7th, 2008 at 1:49 am
Well let’s agree to disagree Pffeffer. I know plenty of people who know exactly who Tata are. And if you’re right, that they managed to build a global biz worth USD60 billion and no-one knows about it - well they’re even smarter than I thought. Tata make a lot of products. But perhaps not designer labels you might know.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:09 am
if people always think they are right anyway without really listening to others, there is no point of discussing anything…
happy chinese new year!
peace…
February 7th, 2008 at 5:10 am
and i know deepak means light/lamp, hehe
February 7th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Chris,
We will certainly agree to disagree. It really depends on who you talk to. I assume people in your circle know Tata very well because you are heavily involved with India. But those who are not might not know what Tata is. I’d say most Americans have never heard of Tata.
February 8th, 2008 at 8:05 am
Maybe but it doesn’t stop them owning US companies or selling them products does it? Thats the point. You’ve never heard of the Koc Group either have you?
March 3rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I couldn’t understand some parts of this article India | 2point6billion.com, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.