We will certainly agree to disagree. It really depends on who you talk to. I assume people in your circle know Tata very well because you are heavily involved with India. But those who are not might not know what Tata is. I’d say most Americans have never heard of Tata.

happy chinese new year!

peace…

China steel production(2006): 419 million tons, export to US: 45 mT
India steel production(2006): 44 million tons

Again, Tata might be great, but simply not many people outside India knew about it. This is a fact. Thanks to “Nano”, more people got to know Tata.

Regarding brands:

Both countries have popular brands within and outside the countries. There’s more than Haier, Huawei and Legend as well as more than Tata, Mittal and Infosys. Both countries produce super low end goods (believe me there are a lot of substandard consumer goods for sale in India) as well as incredible feats of high tech engineering.

Chris rightfully pointed out another phenomenon: not only the goods that go into other products but also the engineering behind the products and what to think about engineering brandnames, manufacturers of machinery that we consumers do not know but that are revered in their specific industrial markets. You will find a lot of Indian and very much so Chinese brandnames there. Just go and visit any specific manufacturing exhibition. You’ll be amazed how many more famous Indian and Chinese brands are out there. But ok you were discussing consumer brands.

Just an interesting story:

Not so long ago there was an article in the New York Times about the manhole covers of New York. These cast iron covers were made in India so the journalist decided to go over and look at the manufacturing facilities. He wanted to know if the city of New York, always on the forefront of proclaiming how they care about their staff and workers, applies the same high moral principles abroad.

Absolutely horrendous working conditions is what he found. The photoseries can be found on the NYT website. Medieval production techniques, very dangerous for the unprotected workers. For the New York Times reading New Yorker who sees hundreds of manhole covers a day with the sign “Made in India” that is what manufacturing in India is now all about.

Moral of the story: one story with an impact can affect the perception of a group of people but it does not have to mean that all Indian working consitions and products are like that. So Barbie had bad paint and a bad design? There’s millions of products made in China that are in a different league than barbie but the perception is all there is.

If companies decide to have high tech manufacturing outsourced the can do that anywhere. India with its lesser infrastructure would not be the place to cast a sophisticated piece of aluminium. The idea that China can not make very sophisticated products is a joke. The worlds first Pebble Bed Nuclear reactor after the idea had been given up? China. INdia is good at pharma we know and again like Chris said: we might not buy Dr. Reddy medicines in China but it is very well possible that your foreign branded pills come from an Indian factory or a factory bought by Indians and produced by one of the OEM generics outfits. The question is how much is that about being brilliant and how much because you have good international financing in place. The Chinese can not do the same takeovers, both managerial and due to currency restrictions financially, that look so easy for Indians. For Indian companies looking to expand globally in certain niche markets this is the beginning of the golden age.

Although Indian companies are going global let’s not forget the success of the Chinese companies. Staying with aluminium. Chalco just bought a 13 billion USD stake in Rio Tinto so it is certainly not all Mittal, Jindall and Tata that rules. As a matter of fact I think the Chinese are going to be rather succesful in buying global mineral deposits. Check what is happening in Africa.

Just take it as it is. Two large countries, each with their own level of high and low tech industries, each with their own export and internal consumer markets. Each with their own deplorable living and working conditions for the poor. Communist or democratic does not seem to be making a big difference in that respect. If you are poor the only thing to sell after your children and kidney is your vote and unfortunately that has not been of a great help in India and the poor in the inland provinces of China are still having to deal with what they have always been dealing with: staying alive and hoping for a bit of advancement.

Each country will be trying to eat away the others market share in the global economy. Government long term vision will certainly play a role in both India and China in which one side might focus on processing more and the other shows great concern of getting the raw meterials as well. The rest is al in the spirit of free enterprise. More brands will make it to the global marketplace and some will be Chinese and some will be Indian. “We Indians” or “We Chinese” is not a way to look at it.

If you notice, a true multinational with a market cap of just under USD60 billion. Now you may not see the Tata brand name on a soft drink or a pair of jeans, but that doesn’t mean they are not a successful company. I think you confuse consumer branding as being directly relevant to being a successful global business. Actually, that is not necessarily true. Look at the right hand side of their website. See that new acquisition by Tata of US General Chemical Industrial for USD1,005 million ? That’s a lot of chemicals and a lot of US businesses and employees in the States that now rely upon….an Indian company for their jobs and product quality. So I would suggest that just because most of your friends haven’t heard of them is not really a valid argument when it comes to their true market share and value. And thats just Tata. How about Mittal, Reliance, Mahindra, Infosys….its a long list.

I am not here to compare business models. Tata may turn out to be a great automobile company and the pride of India, but right now it simply doesn’t register with most people outside India. Don’t believe me? Try ask non-Indians around you.