Comments on: Ten Things in India that You Can’t Get in China http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html China & India, 40% of the world's population Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:28:44 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: zhuang kang http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-72373 zhuang kang Tue, 20 Apr 2010 07:13:47 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-72373 People who are related to these comments, i just want all of us to really think through why we use the word democrocy all the time, is it a mean or an end. if you really think through its got both mean and end, depends what culture background you coming from, with weterners people like to say democratic process is a great mean to get social, economical, political improvements and its a system that overall treats people fairly. The importance of democratic system is for the sake of democracy, it has to achieve certain objectives for the society and people. Therefore, some system such as the Chinese current system might seem very odd and un-reasonable can be the same means that acheive objectives for the chinese people and society, or improve from before. Its like i used to discuss with Americans when i first came back from Korea for my tour duty in Korea regarding to some people eat dogs, i personally do not consume dogs, but the reaction with most Americans on eating dogs are terrible, they think that is barbarian and uncivilized. Well, the labeling of the Korean people with these unwanted titles simply is a huge mis-understanding, as i put it how Americans have farms to farm cows and etc, Some Koreans or Chinese have the habit of eating dogs, and they farm dogs just like how American farm cows for beef. So other people eating dogs might not be wrong in their culture and land. The Marketing Campaign US government is using on democrocy with middleeast and places where they want to interfere, we just have to take a more objective view points on this. People who are related to these comments, i just want all of us to really think through why we use the word democrocy all the time, is it a mean or an end. if you really think through its got both mean and end, depends what culture background you coming from, with weterners people like to say democratic process is a great mean to get social, economical, political improvements and its a system that overall treats people fairly. The importance of democratic system is for the sake of democracy, it has to achieve certain objectives for the society and people. Therefore, some system such as the Chinese current system might seem very odd and un-reasonable can be the same means that acheive objectives for the chinese people and society, or improve from before. Its like i used to discuss with Americans when i first came back from Korea for my tour duty in Korea regarding to some people eat dogs, i personally do not consume dogs, but the reaction with most Americans on eating dogs are terrible, they think that is barbarian and uncivilized. Well, the labeling of the Korean people with these unwanted titles simply is a huge mis-understanding, as i put it how Americans have farms to farm cows and etc, Some Koreans or Chinese have the habit of eating dogs, and they farm dogs just like how American farm cows for beef. So other people eating dogs might not be wrong in their culture and land. The Marketing Campaign US government is using on democrocy with middleeast and places where they want to interfere, we just have to take a more objective view points on this.

]]> By: Chris Devonshire-Ellis http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-71850 Chris Devonshire-Ellis Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:45:15 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-71850 @Zhuang Kang, very valuable and balanced comments about your relations with Indians and thank you for sharing with us. Chris @Zhuang Kang, very valuable and balanced comments about your relations with Indians and thank you for sharing with us. Chris

]]> By: zhuang kang http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-71628 zhuang kang Sun, 28 Mar 2010 06:08:53 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-71628 Ananda, another important view point i forgot to mention last time is that if the majority of the society has improved from social fronts, education system, welfare of the people, medical system and etc. And infact this semi-dictator government did achieve those objectives by evolving from dictatorship like Vianem to a semi or maybe a quasi-dictatorship in China. I look at the improvement overall, because just simply saying well China needs democracy is not a solution, the above social improvements are the end results either from a democracy or from something different from what we traditionally known. If China implements democracy when its not ready, then you will see the mirror image of Iraq happenning. so my point is each country has to become democracy or some type of democratic government through its own evolution and change, and its very difficult for outsiders to really understand this dynanmic. Ananda, another important view point i forgot to mention last time is that if the majority of the society has improved from social fronts, education system, welfare of the people, medical system and etc. And infact this semi-dictator government did achieve those objectives by evolving from dictatorship like Vianem to a semi or maybe a quasi-dictatorship in China. I look at the improvement overall, because just simply saying well China needs democracy is not a solution, the above social improvements are the end results either from a democracy or from something different from what we traditionally known. If China implements democracy when its not ready, then you will see the mirror image of Iraq happenning. so my point is each country has to become democracy or some type of democratic government through its own evolution and change, and its very difficult for outsiders to really understand this dynanmic.

]]> By: Ananda http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-71624 Ananda Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:51:12 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-71624 @zhuang kang, I agree with you, democracy has flaws built within. In every country, the number of idiots outnumber the number of reasonable people. So, on a macro level, the idiots could vote for their favourite idiot against the more fit person. But democracy comes with these important qualities: respect for dissent, respect for alternate view points, ability to co-exist, religious freedom, no police brutality (atleast lesser). The ideal form of government which many Indians, including Mahatma Gandhi, dream of is "Ram Rajya" (Lord Ram's Rule) - India's idea of Utopia. In the epic Ramayana, Rama was the ideal king. Even though he had absolute power, the people questioned the virtue of his wife. He respected it & made her take the fire test. This shows the democratic quality of ancient India - of respecting the popular opinion, yet at the same time being ruled by a duty-bound, ethics-bound, honour-bound dictator. I personally believe that India's ancient system of Varnashrama is the best. The royal clan is raised from the childhood to uphold Dharma. Given that every political leader these days are very corrupt, its better to have Democracy rather than Dictatorship. How do we achieve Ram Rajya today, I have no idea. @zhuang kang,

I agree with you, democracy has flaws built within. In every country, the number of idiots outnumber the number of reasonable people. So, on a macro level, the idiots could vote for their favourite idiot against the more fit person. But democracy comes with these important qualities: respect for dissent, respect for alternate view points, ability to co-exist, religious freedom, no police brutality (atleast lesser).

The ideal form of government which many Indians, including Mahatma Gandhi, dream of is “Ram Rajya” (Lord Ram’s Rule) – India’s idea of Utopia. In the epic Ramayana, Rama was the ideal king. Even though he had absolute power, the people questioned the virtue of his wife. He respected it & made her take the fire test. This shows the democratic quality of ancient India – of respecting the popular opinion, yet at the same time being ruled by a duty-bound, ethics-bound, honour-bound dictator.

I personally believe that India’s ancient system of Varnashrama is the best. The royal clan is raised from the childhood to uphold Dharma. Given that every political leader these days are very corrupt, its better to have Democracy rather than Dictatorship. How do we achieve Ram Rajya today, I have no idea.

]]> By: zhuang kang http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-71402 zhuang kang Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:09:05 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-71402 Hi this is Kang, I am currently living in China. i have worked with many indians in my career here in China. And i never thought i would enjoy working with indians this much, but Indians are great people to work with. I just wanted to raise a few points related to this debate. when both country has huge number of population still living in poverty, and are not educated to understand the true meaning of democracy, i am not saying the one party is the solution for it. However, having people who are incapable of voting or vote for personal gains on materialism and money, then the essence of democracy is tained. I know in both india and China, voting for rural viliage minister is actually a decmoratic process, yes even in China for many of you who don't know. However, the minister who gets in are mostly the ones who gave most of the money to their voters or giving most gifts to their voters in public. In Indian same thing happens. So having an elected official without the essence of the democratic mean is equal to a person without a soul in my opinion. Both country is poor and under developed comparing with the West. I am not ok with Chinese government blocking Utube and Twitter, however just simply debating thinking they do it because of the issues stated above its kind of too simple. There are comprehensive issues why they do it, I still have not figured out all of them yet, however i know part of it is because of the similar issue i stated earlier regarding to the democratic voting issue that defeats the purpose of democracy, as if twitter and facebook as we view it as social website, and many times it really gets to the wrong usage. once again, sometime we need to think through are people ready for this, are you willing to give a baby a knive to play. Hi this is Kang, I am currently living in China. i have worked with many indians in my career here in China. And i never thought i would enjoy working with indians this much, but Indians are great people to work with. I just wanted to raise a few points related to this debate. when both country has huge number of population still living in poverty, and are not educated to understand the true meaning of democracy, i am not saying the one party is the solution for it. However, having people who are incapable of voting or vote for personal gains on materialism and money, then the essence of democracy is tained. I know in both india and China, voting for rural viliage minister is actually a decmoratic process, yes even in China for many of you who don’t know. However, the minister who gets in are mostly the ones who gave most of the money to their voters or giving most gifts to their voters in public. In Indian same thing happens. So having an elected official without the essence of the democratic mean is equal to a person without a soul in my opinion. Both country is poor and under developed comparing with the West. I am not ok with Chinese government blocking Utube and Twitter, however just simply debating thinking they do it because of the issues stated above its kind of too simple. There are comprehensive issues why they do it, I still have not figured out all of them yet, however i know part of it is because of the similar issue i stated earlier regarding to the democratic voting issue that defeats the purpose of democracy, as if twitter and facebook as we view it as social website, and many times it really gets to the wrong usage. once again, sometime we need to think through are people ready for this, are you willing to give a baby a knive to play.

]]> By: Sapna http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-70882 Sapna Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:50:15 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-70882 Hello Chris, A great read - the whole series on India China. As also the debate. Hello Chris,
A great read – the whole series on India China. As also the debate.

]]> By: Chris Devonshire-Ellis http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-70679 Chris Devonshire-Ellis Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:39:53 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-70679 You can see an essay on the Dalai Lama and the Indian/Chinese issue concerning the matter here: http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/10/27/china%e2%80%99s-real-india-position-dismantle-dharamsala-2735.html You can see an essay on the Dalai Lama and the Indian/Chinese issue concerning the matter here: http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/10/27/china%e2%80%99s-real-india-position-dismantle-dharamsala-2735.html

]]> By: gabriel http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-70659 gabriel Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:52:15 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-70659 The Dalai Lama maybe a nice enough guy, but the system of rule which had the Dalai Lama at its head in Tibet never was very nice, as far as I know. It was a feudal theocracy which kept the country in absolute backwardness, and most of the people gained little benefit from it. Even though Chinese accounts maybe exagerrated, it is certainly true that Tibet was in need of a revolution of some sorts in the forties. The Dalai Lama maybe a nice enough guy, but the system of rule which had the Dalai Lama at its head in Tibet never was very nice, as far as I know.

It was a feudal theocracy which kept the country in absolute backwardness, and most of the people gained little benefit from it. Even though Chinese accounts maybe exagerrated, it is certainly true that Tibet was in need of a revolution of some sorts in the forties.

]]> By: Chris Devonshire-Ellis http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-70654 Chris Devonshire-Ellis Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:23:03 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-70654 The Dalai Lama is a nice enough guy and I have a lot of sympathy for the Tibetan people. However as a theocratic institution, Tibetan Buddhism proved to be totally unsuitable as a governing vehicle for a more modern, ironically 'enlightened' era. They always were in danger of being consumed by first Mongolia, then China, and that is exactly what eventually happened. Ultimately, the system failed the people. The Dalai Lama is a nice enough guy and I have a lot of sympathy for the Tibetan people. However as a theocratic institution, Tibetan Buddhism proved to be totally unsuitable as a governing vehicle for a more modern, ironically ‘enlightened’ era. They always were in danger of being consumed by first Mongolia, then China, and that is exactly what eventually happened. Ultimately, the system failed the people.

]]> By: gabriel http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2009/09/17/ten-things-in-india-that-you-can%e2%80%99t-get-in-china-2266.html/comment-page-1#comment-70652 gabriel Fri, 23 Oct 2009 05:22:24 +0000 http://www.2point6billion.com/news/?p=2266#comment-70652 Actually all this you said about Tibet is very intersting. Thank you. It also thrown some rather less romantic light on the whole tradition of the Dalai Lama. Actually all this you said about Tibet is very intersting. Thank you. It also thrown some rather less romantic light on the whole tradition of the Dalai Lama.

]]>